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Old Jun 05, 2007, 12:43 AM // 00:43   #1
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Default How to catch a spike?

Whats your strategy? Of course 90% of us here use infuse, but how the hell do you catch a spike? It takes half a second to react plus the 1/4 from the infuse. And thse spikes are sometimes so fast you can blink and miss it. What the hell.
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Old Jun 05, 2007, 12:49 AM // 00:49   #2
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I watch for signs, like hexes or conditions on party members, and I watch #1 on the other team (usually the caller). If you see the spike casting, you get an extra second to react.
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Old Jun 05, 2007, 12:55 AM // 00:55   #3
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The good spikes don't use hexes or conditions, it gives away the spike. Except sf which can own if you have people next to you.

Ya you can watch the caller all you want, but its still hard to tell who is getting spiked. Especially if everyone is balling up.
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Old Jun 05, 2007, 12:57 AM // 00:57   #4
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http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=495

This entire thread is fairly decent. My post is on page 2 and I quoted it for you below. It might be somewhat outdated, though. Let me know if something is unclear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy
There are a few different types of spike and they all require a different approach to catching them. I can't say with any certainty that these methods are the absolute best, but they are the ones that I use.

Versus caster spike (r-spike included): Generally, your build will have some disruption to it, whether it be KDs, interupts, diversion, blackout, blinds, or something else. Have your disrupting characters make their calls on who they will be shutting down. Once you know which of their players will be incapacitated for at least some of the spikes, you will know which of the casters you can watch to see (ideally) 100% of the spikes at the proper rhythm. Stay focused on one of the spikers and just hoover your target party member(s) arrow/button(s), as well as your infuse/rof key. When the spike skill cast is beginning, take your eyes off of the spell that's casting and watch the body direction of the spiker, as their character will begin to point towards the target. Often times, this will not lead to a secure conclusion of who the target is. However, sometimes it does, and you will be able to pre-prot/pre-infuse. Most times, it does help to narrow down the list of possible targets. If you are holding Alt and watch the body direction to see that their spikers are moving towards party members 2 and 4, you will be able to focus on those two bars, and they will be more easily and quickly accessible once the spike does come. About half a second before the spell is scheduled to cast, take your eyes off of the spiker, move it to your red bars, and prepare for impact, utilizing all of the information that you've already gathered regarding shutdown, cohesiveness, timing, direction, and team position in order to form a heuristic for the general state of the spike. Once this is done, the actual twitching of the spike heal skill will be greatly simplified. This method works against all spikes which utilize casters with long casting spells, but is especially effective against pure caster spike, as well as one of the only real ways to read the spike.

Versus adrenaline-based spike (no shadow stepping): Any good team is going to try to conceal their spike, but this type of spike, even if run by the best teams, is very easy to read. Convergence is the name of the game when monking against adren spike. Often, warriors will build adren seperately, then run around together for a little while before quickly turning and unloading on the same target. The easiest way to distinguish the target is to have your team spread out as much as possible and try to kite the warriors into the open and away from the rest of your teammates. The less opponents in the proximity of the melee, the harder a time the spike warriors will have with the quick switch, and the more obvious the target will become. As a monk, watch for targets where the warriors come together, as equal distance or travel time will often mean a great big "X" on a teammate's forehead. If there is only one warrior in the spike, reading through convergence is made even easier. Instead of watching a warrior, watch a caster, preferably an elementalist, and watch for the convergence of the nuke's timing and the warrior's position. Once the caster begins to cast their spike skill, don't watch his/her directioning as with pure caster spike, but rather move to the warrior, checking where he/she is and where he/she is going. Since there will be less than a second delay, the warrior will already be charging toward the target, which leads to the most obvious giveaway.

Versus adrenaline-based spike (using shadow stepping): This includes Shadow Prison spike as well as Death's Charge. This is by far the trickiest type of spike to catch. The problem is that the warrior(s) serve as a caster which just provides a ranged deep wound in order to help the rest of the spike to kill. A warrior is used for the deep wound because a frenzied dismember is faster than aftercast+shatter delusions, and there is no aftercast between spells and attack skills, even though they won't hit at the exact same time. In order to read such spikes, I keep my eyes on the warriors and estimate their aggro bubble range. If possible, I try to stay just at the edge of it while remaining in range of my teammates in order to minimize their pool of immediate targets. The warriors can only spike targets in their spell-casting range, so the possible targets are already minimized by watching them. However, it's often not by much. Play the game as if facing a normal team, but always be aware of the Shadow Prison recharges and the warrior's adrenaline. If the warrior has full adren and Shadow Prison is recharged, make sure to have everyone on your team spread out, as these spikes often use multiple mesmers for AoE damage, and your reaction on the heal will be delayed if multiple teammates take significant damage. When everything is loaded for the spike to come, I often look directly ahead at the field while clicked on a warrior. Casters with long-cast spells will begin to cast first, and if I see the animation in the distance, I start to hoover in preparation. Sometimes the target will be obvious because of the direction, but most of the time, it just helps with getting the timing of the spike down. Since the caster is not clicked on, the actual spell cast must be an approximation, which will be used for the timing of the general spike as well as the action of the warrior(s). If any character with gale/blind sees a caster preparing a long cast, this is when he/she should gale/blind the enemy warrior(s). Once the long cast spike animation is recognized, switch focus to party bars while maintaining warrior actions in your peripheral vision and be ready to twitch the heal as soon as you see the warrior do anything. If the spike has Shadow Prison, the hex is often easiest to recognize at first, so heal the hexed target, no matter what (clearly, there is an exception if you are blacked out, galed, shamed, etc). Often times, multiple targets will be hexed with diversion or some water hex at the same time as someone else receives Shadow Prison. Obviously, follow the most recent hex. Other times, you will need to follow damage. If the spike begins without the immediate deep wound, you will be able to twitch it early because you are aware of the caster's timing and animation, and the switch of focus from opponents to party bars promotes awareness of any kind of significant damage. This is also necessary if the target who is being spiked was also hexed with diversion or a water hex before the spike. In this case, and with Death's Charge spike, there will be no new hex, and you will have to be able to recognize the change in the health bar or the additon of a condition as the only showing. This is the hardest type of spike to catch due to its impossibility to directly watch, speed, and usually, massive amounts of monk shutdown. Thus, it depends largely on quick reactions and how prepared one is for it, but those are the things I do to help with it.
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Old Jun 05, 2007, 01:06 AM // 01:06   #5
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ok basically, there's a few things.

pretty much all spikes have an obvious giveaway currently.

in gvg, (i know this is the ha section but just stfu), there's usuaully 2 melee going to quickly switch to a target.

in ha, there's, let me see...;

- Searing Flames - Burning condition
- Ritspikes - obvious rifts popping up, sometimes also a hex that supplies for a deepwound
- Necrospike - usually hexes that supply for a deepwound or that equal soulbarbs, of weakness if you happen to face sog (LOL)
- again, melees coming onto the targets direction quickly and others preparing a cast

second, you are not alone. you got a prot monk by your side, spirit bond should be up asap, watching the field is very important, don't stalk your teambar.

also, you shouldn't click both skill and teammember. i usually have my finger set on '2' (which is infuse) when facing teams that are surely or capable of spiking and select the teammember with my mouse -- it's personal preferance but works. just make sure to use your keyboard and mouse in a good synergy.

also, the caller usually picks a smart target which you can observe to see the skills being used, so you're aware when someone is getting spiked.

and of course, watch your radar. see if everyone is in range, and stuff.

meh, most of this will probably turn up crap tomorrow when i read it after waking up and i shall fix it then, but whatever. :P

gl infusing. D;
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Old Jun 05, 2007, 01:18 AM // 01:18   #6
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Mistakes:
Teams not having disruption, then put the blame on the infuser.
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Old Jun 05, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39   #7
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well some spikes are just impossible, not matter what if they have a perfect one and perfect cordination...but there is a couple ways you might be able to stop it, like a kd/as said before, because they usaully need ALL the spikes to cordnate one and if ones missing, and another is off, theres 2/3 of the spike gone and easier for the monks to catch...
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Old Jun 05, 2007, 01:44 AM // 01:44   #8
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What I hate is it when you miss a spike and everyone on vent is like 'OMG!! DUDE!! WTF??? INFUSE MAN!!!'

as if were the easiest thing to do.
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Old Jun 05, 2007, 01:44 AM // 01:44   #9
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A very minor tip, If your using a mo/e with aegis, keep soft targets ( 60-70 AL ) protted ( use the second 10 energy from glyph to free prot some softie in your team )
If they have pre hex before spike, pre veil helps a lot, slowing the spikes down and if they shatter the holy veil it also warns you. Usually the -1 nrgy wont hurt that much, spike builds dont have a good pressure.

On other subject, does anybody infuses with numpad ? And if you do, please give out some tips ^^
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Old Jun 05, 2007, 02:50 AM // 02:50   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taurus
On other subject, does anybody infuses with numpad ? And if you do, please give out some tips ^^
I actually do that sometimes. It feels weird without a hand on your mouse, but if you get used to it, it takes less time to infuse.
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Old Jun 05, 2007, 04:16 AM // 04:16   #11
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Assuming they get it off and have no give away like a hex or enchantment, you're just going to have rely off reaction times. Currently, rit or icy veins spike is the only one that's really powerful enough that it's just really friggin hard to react to most of them. You're going to have to disrupt some or see it coming.
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Old Jun 05, 2007, 09:24 AM // 09:24   #12
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Quote:
On other subject, does anybody infuses with numpad ? And if you do, please give out some tips ^^
Mouse isn't fast enough, esp vs good teams. Since this is HA, all the good teams have left. I was pretty good with infuse last year or so .
Practice makes perfect. Too bad there's no one left to practice against .
Also a good prot should catch most adrenal spikes, or any other kind of spike that are now.
Infuse was only really good vs b & ranger spike.
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Old Jun 05, 2007, 09:43 AM // 09:43   #13
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These spikes arn't so fast that you can blink and miss it. That is where you're going wrong.

Using mouse is fine, for me anyway... In the past it was too, it was just I would press the infuse button too late or too slow :P.

I like to be able to mouse walk/strafe on keyboard and other stuff...

Remember the game interprets things differently. Clientside for keyboard, servside for mouse clicks (I think).

I guess I'm in the 10%. I deem none of the spikes infuse worthy at the moment.
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Old Jun 05, 2007, 11:36 AM // 11:36   #14
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what i do is i program my keyboard so that my left hand do not have to move away from the WASD(up left down right) area. Basically i use 1 2 3 4 for skills 1 2 3 4 and Q for number 5 and E for number 6 and Z number 7, i usually put skills that i can click to use like aegis or Lod.

When proting, watch for the obvious enchant removals. This is sometimes obvious because the enchant will be removed about 2-3 second before the actual spike. A good spike team have 1 person casting a enchant removal spell as the rest of the team is spiking and then follow up with a skill, this way the spike lands about 1/4 to 1/2 sec after the enchant removal.

Also while monking, don't watch the red bars. Watch the playing field. If a bunch of the ritualists run in and started casting spiking skill, you must know that they are not spiking anyone up front because if they are, they wouldn't have to run in. Small things like this will make your infuse and proting a lot better. also takes a tons of practice.
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Old Jun 05, 2007, 04:05 PM // 16:05   #15
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I'd deem some rit spikes as infuse worthy, they can be pretty fast...

Anyway, I use 3 as my infuse key, but also have a logitech g5 mouse, and programmed a side button (right thumb) so that i can press that to infuse. I like to be able to move around/strafe with the keyboard, so I keep one hand on mouse, one hand on WASD. It's really going to matter where you keep your infuse button and whatever you're comfortable with...
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Old Jun 06, 2007, 02:50 AM // 02:50   #16
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i use 2 as my infuse slot only because it is right above W so it is the closest key and i feel comfortable using it. And a perfect rit spike is not infusable without some sort of prot; however, this rarely happens. the prot monks should prot the infuser and also try to catch spikes with spiritbond. As i posted earlier, if you watch the playing field, sometimes you can guess who they are spiking and pre prot them with prot spirit or spiritbond.
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Old Jun 06, 2007, 06:49 AM // 06:49   #17
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preprot and teach your teammates to run away.

If you are facing a 700+ dmg spike that uses only 1 skill, is at range, you cant interupt consistantly enough, and cant pressure at all, resign. You are in for at least a 10 min battle, that is if you win, better to just restart your run.
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Old Jun 06, 2007, 08:31 AM // 08:31   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Me An Ocean
What I hate is it when you miss a spike and everyone on vent is like 'OMG!! DUDE!! WTF??? INFUSE MAN!!!'

as if were the easiest thing to do.
Then you yell at your prot monk "OMG DUDE WTF SPIRIT BOND PLUS PROT SPIRIT PLX KTHX NUBS!!!!"

Spirit bond can reduce most spikes to 20-30 damage a hit, and adding prot spirit on top of that can basically heal any remaining spike damage that takes place after it.
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Old Jun 06, 2007, 03:34 PM // 15:34   #19
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Dont waste spirit bond energy on a soul barbs spike plox...
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Old Jun 06, 2007, 05:22 PM // 17:22   #20
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1st. Watch for signs(hex ,conditions and enchantment removing)
2nd. try to see in what direction the spiker are pointing in when they are about to spike!
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